@ Rich_Cain Oh, no doubt. Still, he's literally the only star center today. 1990s had Shaq, Hakeem, David Robinson, Ewing, Mutumbo, etc. 1 hour ago

Not saying these things as Bulls fan - it's about what makes sense basketball-wise. Best team in a top 3 market makes all sense w/o ego. 2 hours ago

There's only one "logical" reason why Dwight Howard won't play for Bulls: he'll never be bigger than DRose in Chicago. 2 hours ago

I've seen many reasons why Dwight Howard doesn't want to play w/ Bulls, but supposed endorsement $ in Brooklyn is dumbest. See MJ and DRose. 2 hours ago

Can buy a LOT of Skittles RT @ WojYahooNBA Derrick Rose, Adidas agree on 13 year deal that could pay over $200 million: http://t.co/DnbdgTGJ 2 hours ago

Does anyone know why the NBA All-Star Game is at same time as the Oscars this year? Was that the plan even before the lockout? 22 hours ago

Team Shaq definitely has the fun squad in the NBA Rising Stars Game: Jeremy Lin, Blake Griffin and Ricky Rubio 23 hours ago

Post last night - Latest in Conference Realignment (and a Touch of Linsanity): Temple to Big East; BYU Talks to Big 12 http://t.co/pYQC1o5R 1 day ago

Great stuff as always RT @ drewmagary : All new Dadspin post. http://t.co/Df3dKYep 1 day ago

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Latest in Conference Realignment (and a Touch of Linsanity): Temple to the Big East and BYU Talking to the Big 12

The conference realignment news continues to drip along in the middle of Linsanity*, with multiple reports stating that Temple** is deep in discussions to join the Big East as an all-sports member .  If this is fully consummated, I’d call the move slightly surprising because Villanova seemed to have a lot a sway in blocking Temple from encroaching on Main Line school’s power conference monopoly in the Philadelphia market, but it’s certainly not shocking.  Ultimately, it would be tough for any football conference claiming to be northeastern-centric to not have some type of presence in Pennsylvania, so Temple fills a need for the Big East on that front.  Another immediate league need that Temple can take care of is being able to join for the 2012 football season, which would allow the Big East to maintain a full conference schedule.

(* To preface the story below, you should know that I’m half-Chinese and half-Polish and my childhood dream was always to be the first Asian-American NBA player.  That dream was looking good when I was a towering 5′ 11″ center that could shoot 3-pointers in 7th grade.  I’m now 34 years old… and still 5′ 11″.  Anyway, three years ago this month, I went to visit my sister and some of my cousins living in Philadelphia.  As a hoops junkie, one of my requests was to see a game at the Palestra, which featured a Penn vs. Harvard game that particular weekend.  My two fully Asian-American cousins pointed out beforehand that there was actually a Chinese-American player on Harvard that was halfway decent named Jeremy Lin and we all got pretty excited.  Think about that for moment: for us, the thought of an Asian-American playing even Ivy League basketball was a carnie attraction on par with a bearded lady.  Lin ended up playing fairly well, but I recall him shooting an airball at one point and there definitely wasn’t any thought that he’d be ever able to make an NBA roster (much less be a starting point guard that scores 20 points and dishes out 10 assists per game consistently).  It was easy to see why he went undrafted and so many teams passed on him – the extra speed and power that you’d expect from an NBA prospect in comparison to other college players wasn’t there.  The fact that Lin has become a walking movie plot on almost every single level and taken over SportsCenter for the past three weeks (this has actually been statistically documented ) does make me beam with some ethnic pride and it’s a legitimately fun story to watch unfold no matter what your background might be.  The only drawback for me as a Bulls fan is that he plays for the Knicks.  Still, being able to say that I saw Harvard-vintage Jeremy Lin at the Palestra as a college kid makes me feel like I saw The Beatles play at the Cavern Club.  The story has also taken some of my attention away from the nuclear disaster known as University of Illinois basketball.  Ugh.)

(** In case you don’t recognize the person in the picture at the top of this post, it’s Bill Cosby playing for the Temple football team in the 1960s.)

Over the coming weeks, I’ll have some more posts on conference realignment news as it unfolds, college football playoff/plus-one proposals, the state of challenges to ESPN’s TV sports supremacy, and March Madness thoughts.  Until then, please send me your list of coaching candidates to replace Bruce Weber.

(Follow Frank the Tank’s Slant on Twitter @frankthetank111 and Facebook )

Comments

greg

says:

Thanks for sharing the story, Frank, about Jeremy Lin. Almost all the responses to your post will be about realignment, but this was cool because it speaks to how sports can be personally meaningful in ways the athletes may never know. As for ethnic pride for my own lineage, there’s not much to speak about. Generally, and I emphasize generally, caucasian amilies in the South don’t keep up with their ethnic heritage quite as well as they do with their identities as southerners and/or Americans. My mom’s side of the family is certainly that way. My dad knows little about his family origins, beyond his grandparents being from Ohio. On the other hand, my mother-in-law knows very well where she comes from. Her parents (my wife’s grandparents) were born and raised in Manila. The Philippines were, during her father’s young adult years, an American territory, specifically during World War II. He joined the US Army and a decade or so later, my mother in law was being raised in North Carolina (Fayetteville, near Fort Bragg, to be exact). But she and her brothers and sisters have never been to the Philippines… until now. She and her sister are visiting there for the first time in their lives as I type. It’s an emotional, educational, joyous, sobering (because of sex crimes and poverty in Manila), overwhelming, wonderful experience for them. Pride for their heritage, which has always been impossible to miss, must be at an all-time high.

Being married to a woman who’s half-Asian (or half-Pacific Islander or whatever the heck they’re calling it these days) and in light of sharing your story about seeing a Harvard-era Jeremy Lin live in Philly, I thought I’d share that with you.

Thanks for the great blog post Frank!

@Michael

My spouse has a book tracing her family back to the Mayflower. I don’t think its that uncommon in the South. Old times there are not forgotten. Her grandmother considered “Sherman” a curse word. Of course, she knew people who survived Sherman’s march through Georgia when he vowed to “Make Georgia howl.”

The understanding of roots to the Mayflower does lend credence to the idea of southerners appreciating their roots from their ancestors’ home countries. But the “Sherman” reference totally affirms my sense that white southerners have as much or more pride in their regional heritage here in the States than they do in their ethnic heritage from ancestors’ origins. Contrast that with the Midwest. Midwestern pride is certainly real, but it’s not viewed as a rallying point the way it is in the South. But what there’s a lot more of is ethnic pride. In fact (someone correct me if I’m wrong) there aren’t Little Italy’s or Chinatowns or Greektowns in southern cities although New Orleans has great French Heritage.

Look I k ow my characterizations are simplifying. That’s why keep saying “generally.” Heck, I mentioned my own mother-in-law’s connection to her ethnic background that she learned growing up in Fayetteville, NC. But even with that, it was much harder for to be as connected and knowlwdgeable about Philipino culture, in part because of the place she grew up. Her accent is 10X more southern than it is Philipino. However, her cousins who grew up in San Francisco and Seattle, are fluent in the language and are all around more versed in the customs than she and her siblings are. Anecdotal evidence of my point? Yes, but I think a lot of people would agree with me that it’s easier to keep up with ethnic heritage outside of the South than it using the South. But its just my opinion, nothing more.

IMHO, it is mostly due to the south losing the war.

Michael in Raleigh,

In fact (someone correct me if I’m wrong) there aren’t Little Italy’s or Chinatowns or Greektowns in southern cities although New Orleans has great French Heritage.

I won’t speak for other cities, but Atlanta has those types of ethnic neighborhoods, mostly along Buford Highway (at least for the Asian countries).

Eric

says:

I’m not southerner, but I guess I’ve got kind of the same outlook. I can respect people wanting to know and feeling connected, but to me knowing some of the countries/areas my ancestors were living in the decades/centuries before coming here just never mattered. I figured if the melting pot really works (which I hope it does) we should all have ancestors from all over whether we know it or not (unless ancestory in this country is very recent) and knowing I had a distant relative from somewhere just never really effected me.

I guess I feel the same type of connection in a different way though. When asked “where I’m from” I say that I’m three quarters Ohioan and one quarter South Carolinan. My grandparents were very important to me and even having never been to my grandma’s area in South Carolina, I think I’d feel a connection. I guess this kind of explains how sports effect me too. Being huge into state pride, it’s the state vs. state battles that interest me the most and why losing something like Missouri vs. Kansas actually made me sadder than Texas vs. Texas A&M or BYU vs. Utah.

I can’t comment on how people are in the South with regards to their ethnic pride as I live in Florida which really isn’t a good example of the “cultural South”, I can affirm what you’re saying about Midwestern ethnic pride.

Being 100% Dutch and growing up in Grand Rapids, MI, which has a very prominent Dutch population, I have a very healthy appreciation from where my ancestors came from. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a total Michigan homer. I like people more who are from Michigan, I almost always root for people and teams from Michigan, especially those from West Michigan, even when they’re total jerk-offs like Floyd Mayweather. But at the same time, I love listening to my 94-year old grandpa attempt to teach me Dutch words, and talk about different cultural things that have been lost over the years. My great-grandmother was born in GR, but didn’t speak English until she was like 12 because she went to an all Dutch speaking school until 6th grade! I take significant pride in that I have a distant Dutch relative who was an admiral in the Dutch Navy in the 1600s who fought those douchey Brits.

I saw both games of a home-and-home series between UC Irvine and harvard in 2007 (the game in Irvine) and 2008. It was interesting because in both cases, the away team had more support than the home team (there were more harvard fans in Irvine and more Irvine fans in Cambridge) and the home team lost both games. The game in cambridge actually went into overtime, which was exciting.

Lin was on those teams and I remember Lin leading the crimson in scoring in both games. Like you, I was aware of him at that time and was excited to see someone representing us that way- even though, as a Californian, i wished he could have been on the Irvine side!

Well, the BE doesn’t actually have to invite AFA, so they get to choose whether they’re at 13 or not. If they do, though, they still have some options.

One is to become a national conference in both football in basketball. If Louisville leaves and AFA is added in all sports, they could add UNLV in both basketball and football and add SDSU basketball as well. That makes for a 14 team football league and 20 team basketball league.

In football, all teams Memphis and west are in the West. All teams Cincy and east are in the East. In basketball, you’d have 2 5-team divisions in 2 conferences. Teams play all other teams in their division twice, the 5 teams in the other division in the conference annually, and one of the 2 divisions in the other conference for a total of 18 games.

Southwest

SDSU

UNLV

AFA

SMU

Houston

Midwest

ND

Marquette

DePaul

Cincy

Memphis

Northeast

Providence

UConn

Rutgers

Atlantic

Villanova

Temple

Georgetown

UCF

USF.

The Southwest, Midwest, and Atlantic divisions can expect to send 3 teams to the NCAA tourney every year. The weaker Northeast can expect to only send 1-2, but 10-11 tourney teams isn’t dad for a 20 school league.

As for ECU, I thought that they weren’t willing to take a football-only invite from the BE (in part because they didn’t want to put their non-football sports in inferior leagues).

Contingency plan if Louisville’s invitation doesn’t come by 2015, Navy’s first year in the Big East: try really, really hard to add Air Force in football only. Basketball would be 18 and football would be 14.

Contingency plan if L’ville does leave: on paper, you’d think the Big East stays at 12 for football and just deals with the odd number of 17 for basketball; 17 was going to be the number for next year, anyway, before WVU andTCU bolted.

Well, if you throw your players under the bus, you have to win, and to win, you’d have to be either a good recruiter or good coach. I’ll have to be convinced that Pat Knight is either.

I mean, I could throw people under the bus as well, but that doesn’t mean Illinois should hire me to coach basketball.

BTW, some choice comments from online posters over at ESPN:

“Pat Knight is a silver spooner who got a scholarship to play at IU despite the fact he wasn’t nearly good enough, only because his dad was the coach. Then he got a job on his dad’s staff at IU and Texas Tech. Then his dad quit during the season so Pat could take over the team. Then, after he got fired, his dad got him the job at Lamar.

Pat got arrested and kicked off the team for awhile at IU because he got drunk on his 21st birthday and wound up in handcuffs in the back seat of a police car.

So, all things considered, he’s been gravy-training his entire basketball career, and isn’t really the guy to be calling out players. ”

“That was the problem Bob Knight ended up with at Indiana. None of the kids with talent wanted to go there anymore. Who wants to play for a jacka$$?”

I have to say, though, that at least Bob Knight could coach. Just because his son is also an a**h— doesn’t mean he can coach.

Yep. I generally like the Domers though.

It’s the folks that are all in yer face about it, feel some huge connection to a place they’ve never been, get passes out drunk at 10 am on st pat’s, and name their kids things like “ire-lynn” and whatnot. I’m around these guys a lot and i’m not trying to bash anyone. It just seems like there is a lot of one uppers in the crowd. I like them and all and I seriously doubt they are unique in their excessive ethnic celebration. They’re just the ones I hang out with. I’ve seen a lot of huge polish tattoos in my day too. I believe the Australians have a word for this feeling. Like when they watch paul hogan on tv. I don’t remember what it is.

Apologies, and sympathies, to all the irelynns out there.

Toughest Schedules

(Based on home games as well as who the teams play. when. From toughest to easiest …)

East

No one’s leaving for at least 6 years. All 10 schools including WVU have signed over TV rights to the conference.

(but….hey…let’s not let that stop everyone comes to this board, from thinking that the Big 12 is ‘unstable’, and schools are leaving)

The Big 12 is stable for the duration of rights. Let’s say in 2017:

The PAC or B1G came and told your Sooners that they were welcome along with Pistol Pete in 2018, do you really think they would turn it down? If the same offer was made to Kansas and Kansas St would they?

Iowa St. gets an offer from the B1G. Don’t you think they would they take it?

Texas solves their Tech problem. What will they do?

West Virginia gets an ACC invite. Wouldn’t they rather be in an east coast conference rather than a southern plains dominated one?

I’m not saying these things will happen, but using these scenarios to show that the Big 12 will be inherently unstable because there are better places to go. Is there a B1G, SEC, or PAC team who would rather be in another conference?

Andy

says:

bullet

says:

Andy

says:

Bullet

says:

That’s because you’re not an SEC fan yet.

It also exacerbates other issues. UGA tries to do things the right way while other schools stretch the rules. It could lead to teams leaving or a split to maximize revenue like the MWC did with the WAC. I’m not saying its likely, just saying its gone from almost no chance to a measurable chance. 14 means you play less which weakens the ties.

Neinas talked about how economic ties used to bind conferences. Missouri has a lot more in common with the Big 10 and Big 12 states economically than the SEC.

Andy

says:

There are several thousand Mizzou alums in Florida and Georgia. I know several who have moved down there. I foresee Mizzou aligning closely with those two schools.

The SEC isn’t big enough to split in two, and I have a hard time imagining any kind of a scenario where it would be beneficial for any of the SEC schools to do so.

This sounds like fantastical wishful thinking from a Texas fan to me.

bullet

says:

I’m also a UK (grew up in KY) and UGA fan (married to a Bulldawg). SEC fans barely knew A&M and Missouri existed before they joined the league. It breaks up rivalries and stirs things up. The SEC fans I know aren’t enthused. Also, the SEC schools are growing apart in a similar manner that the Texas state schools and privates grew apart. Georgia and Florida are now much bigger states and the schools are striving to become Michigans and Cals. They also aren’t very happy with the stretching (and breaking) of the rules some of the other schools do. That stretching is the biggest reason why no ACC school has joined the SEC despite bigger $. Its why Texas and even OU weren’t interested.

Again I didn’t say it was likely, but 14 just puts instability into the system where there was none before. 14 isn’t as bad as 16 (when you really are just an MWC/CUSA type combination for TV), but its much worse than 12. The SEC is just now getting into all the logistical problems. They’ve discovered there are now only 3 pools large enough to handle the swimming meet. The remainder of the schools are unhappy about the advantage that gives UGA, Auburn and the 3rd school (UF I think).

Andy

says:

Sure, there will be disadvantages to go along with the advantages. But the SEC wouldn’t have made this move and SEC Presidents wouldn’t have agreed to it if there weren’t some serious advantages.

Florida and Georgia should be (and by all accounts they are) thrilled to add Mizzou and A&M. Florida was Missouri’s main champion in the expansion process. In a lot of ways these four institutions have the most in common. The hope has to be that those four can work together a voting block to clean up the SEC.

bullet

says:

Mike

says:

Andy

says:

Eh, I’d rather add BYU and Rutgers rather than BYU and Louisville. Getting a decent toehold in the NYC and Philly markets via NJ is better than adding a good basketball team, since both Lou and Rutgers’ football are weak. Plus Salt Lake and NYC are great road trips.

Either way, add BYU if going to 12. Gives the B12 a Longhorn shape geographically, needling the conspiracy types.

BYU and UL are the two best programs. But I’m not sure I don’t prefer UL and UC. Cincinnati is less complicated and fits better. They are in a populated state with talent.

But there just isn’t much talk out of Big 12 territory. I don’t think this is particularly far along.

spartakles78

says:

in no particular order:

Marquette isn’t exactly a small school in basketball. They have one of the top revenue-generating bball programs.

OK, I just looked it up: Buzz Williams already makes over $2M a year ( http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2011/03/buzz-williams-to-remain-at-marquette-as.html ).

That, BTW, is a fair bit more that Bruce Weber’s $1.5M. I rather doubt Buzz Williams will take a pay cut to coach the Illini.

Craig James is an idiot, but nothing he said was bigoted. He said he wouldn’t walk in a gay pride parade and thinks it is a choice rather than genetic. It isn’t bigoted to have a difference of opinion. Some people won’t march in a NY Yankees parade, give to a religious charity, or go to a gun show for similar reasons, i.e. they don’t agree with something. That doesn’t make them ‘bigoted.’

Really tired of libs claiming anyone who dares to have a different opinion on anything is automatically bigoted, racist, sexist, whatever. It is a copout and rather gutless.

Craig James is an idiot, but nothing he said was bigoted. He said he wouldn’t walk in a gay pride parade and thinks it is a choice rather than genetic. It isn’t bigoted to have a difference of opinion. Some people won’t march in a NY Yankees parade, give to a religious charity, or go to a gun show for similar reasons, i.e. they don’t agree with something. That doesn’t make them ‘bigoted.’

Really tired of libs claiming anyone who dares to have a different opinion on anything is automatically bigoted, racist, sexist, whatever. It is a copout and rather gutless.

Except you don’t even know if I’m gay.

No it isn’t a ‘fact.’ Just because there is a genetic component doesn’t it make it 100% genetic and 0% choice. There are a whole range of actions that have genetic tendencies but also involve a degree of choice, for example appetite and weight gain. Some people are genetically predisposed to add weight easily, do we just say it is 100% genetic and not at all their decision to then eat 100 donuts a day and swell to 1000 pounds? No whether it is good, bad, or neutral to resist or fully engage in an action that one has a higher genetic predisposition is another matter that I’m not getting into to or offering an opinion on.

Some people are genetically predisposed to be more talkative or friendly or nurturing. Some are more predisposed to anger or violence. All also involve an element of choice.

BTW, there’s a heck of a lot of ‘accepted facts’ when we are born that will be refuted and discarded during our lifetimes, as has happened throughout history. Witness the same zealots who were declaring ‘Human caused global warming an undisputed fact’ a few years ago now saying that, hmmm, we actually may be looking at global cooling.

Actually in the 70s scientists were proclaiming that pumping all the carbon in the air would produce a new ice age. Time magazine had a cover with smokestacks pumping stuff in the air. Why did they believe that? Because there was a cooling trend in the 50s and 60s and 70s. That also contributed to a lot of coastal development since hurricanes were less frequent. Now people are understanding there is a risk to coastal development.

But that doesn’t mean that people won’t keep moving to the Sun Belt and that the midwest will continue to shrink as a % of the total population. (It was difficult, but I finally got something relevant to the normal topic!).

Here is a quote of what James said: “I think it’s a choice. I do. I think — you have to make that choice. Absolutely. I’m gonna finish this up now. Same-sex marriage, if someone chooses to do that, that’s them. And the Lord — God’s going to judge each one of us in this room for our actions. But in that case right there, they’re going to have to answer to the Lord for their actions. We should not give benefits to those civil unions.”

Frankly, this lib doesn’t really care one way or the other on the “is it a choice” issue. Homosexuality isn’t something that should be chastised, so why should it matter if is chosen or not? (I don’t mean to belittle the difficulties of being gay in a hostile environment, though. So sorry if this comes off that way.) I think that arguing about choice in sexual orientation has the unintended consequence of tacitly admitting that homosexuality is a sin, when it really is not. So, you have a point that James is not necessarily bigoted for thinking that being gay is a choice. What screams bigotry is the last line in his quote, the one about people not deserving benefits. Hard to argue he isn’t bigoted when he wants different benefits for different people in loving relationships.

Is it still gutless if I think he’s a bigot for that reason?

Frank,

As a child basketball greatness was my dream in a basketball crazy state. Sadly, height and speed bypassed my genes for the ability to hit people very hard, and be hit by others with little affect. By about 4th grade my lot was cast on the offensive or defensive line till my playing days were done. To this day I still dream about basketball. The gods can be cruel indeed!

On Lin, he actually was getting press, but I think much was secondary because of the Cornell team at the time being good. That was cool about you getting to see him play, and just shows you it takes more than early success to last in the end. If you have relatives in Philly, and they know where Chaney lives, I have relatives a few blocks away. One of their kids just transferred to Chicago or Northwestern, so it will probably mean some visits before they graduate. You know the NBA wants Lin to do well to increase their marketing presence in China and all those new eyeballs.

Hope the kids are doing well, and who knows, maybe they will keep growing past 5′ 11″

#1 Cultural clashes

If the last 2 really are BYU & Louisville, you have some polar opposite schools in the new kids

West Virginia + Louisville are east coast BYU + TCU are west

#2 How you split the schools

Right now Oklahoma is #1 in football history, and Texas is #2 with Nebraska now in the B1G

Not insurmountable, but you can not put UT and OU in the same division, which means separating oSu from OU in the same division just to keep the powers split. Again, it looks easy, but due to the distance there are few options :

option A : keeps UT with OU and OU with oSu

North = BYU / KU / KSU / ISU / UL / WVU

South = OU / oSu / UT / TT / BU / TCU

option B : keeps OU separate from UT and oSu

East = WVU / UL / ISU / KU / KSU / OU

West = BYU / TT / oSu / TCU / BU / UT

#3 Academic spiral downward

UNL / CU / TAMU / MU were all AAU – TCU / BYU / UL / WVU will probably never be AAU

#4 Clash of titan egos and faith

UT and OU have egos, but BYU is not far behind as a mini Notre Dame

Just like I could NEVER see Notre Dame happy in the B12 as a private independent school, I see BYU as a Mini – Me in that situation. TCU is a regional school, and WVU & UL are state schools. All 3 are small regional players at best, but BYU does not fit that same profile. If Notre Dame views itself as the national and global touchstone of the catholic faith, is it not safe to say that BYU has a similar view among the Mormon faithful? Sure UT and OU look good on the BYU schedule every fall, but how excited are they to play the football powers of ISU / KU / KSU when they can schedule across the nation and get better exposure in states that have high Mormon populations. Just look at Mormons by state :

Top 15 states by Mormon population

UT => 1.858 million

CA ==> .756 million

ID ===> .407 million

AZ ==> .375 million

TX ==> .278 million

WA ==> .258 million

NV ==> .174 million

OR ==> .145 million

CO ==> .137 million

FL ===> .132 million

VA ===> .085 million

NY ===> .076 million

GA ===> .075 million

NC ===> .074 million

HI ====> .068 million

B12 states Mormon population (excluding Texas with UT / TT / BU / TCU)

OK = 42 thousand (OU + oSu)

KS = 33 thousand (KU + KSU)

WV = 17 thousand (WVU)

KY = 31 thousand (UK dominates state not UL)

IA = 24 thousand (Iowa dominates state not ISU)

If you can sell me realistic solutions to these 4 arguments then I might buy BYU to the B12, but for now I am totally skeptical. Frank and others, how do you counter these issues?

As for divisions, I think a modified zipper would work best.

This Division That Division

UT OU

TTU OSU

Baylor TCU

K-State Kansas

WVU UL

BYU ISU

The “pairs” are protected rivalries. I tried to split the divisions based in favor of competitive balance, with That Division being stronger at the top, and This Division having better depth. You could try play around with the alignment, just remember that TTU and Baylor will have to be in the same division since they will throw a hissy fit fi they don’t get annual games with Texas (TCU would be peeved if they don’t get one, but they haven’t played Texas in years so they have less of an argument).

Really, the only big problem with this arrangement is that BYU may not go for it. Not only does it give them the worst crossover game, but it also means they won’t get annual games against both Longhorns and Sooners (something that they might view as a condition for agreeing to join the conference). The former could be dealt with by giving them WVU or UL instead of ISU (though the Big East schools wouldn’t be happy with that), but the latter can’t be easily solved.

frug,

WVU was in the Big East for what 20 years, and is closest to the Pittsburgh market. UL growth has been in the exposure of the BE, and 4 kids on UofL’s basketball roster are from the east coast. Like it or not UofL is still a basketball school, and most of their roster comes from east of the Mississippi. The rest come from the west coast. None of these folks will tune in to watch UL play ISU or KSU. While I agree they are not a pure NYC / Philly east coast school, they do seem to get the most exposure as an east coast team.

I think TCU has less of a say so because they are small and already in Texas. That means a more local or regional school. What I am looking at more is BYU and how they are going to feel joining a conference with 2 schools (UL and WVU) that far away and neither friendly to the Mormon faith. Again, outside of just sports, what keeps with the overall fit of BYU. When they parked all their non football sports with the WCC that was a pretty strong statement even if it meant a cut in exposure and wealth from a better deal. Nine of the top 10 mormon states are west of the mississippi. Again, I understand the football sales pitch, just not sure BYU is driven by just football.

OU / UT

I think this offers better balance (especially in terms of the crossovers) the problem is I think Baylor will go nuts if they don’t get to play Texas every year. Now I don’t know if they will have the leverage to force the issue, but the Cali-4 bullied the PAC into letting them play ever year, so who knows.

That said, it does offer a certain logic. That Division has the Big East schools, Kansas schools and public Texas schools. This Division has the Oklahoma schools and private Texas schools, and all of the religious schools (and Iowa St. but they had to go somewhere, right?)

You need to rethink this part of your argument:

[i]Not insurmountable, but you can not put UT and OU in the same division, which means separating oSu from OU in the same division just to keep the powers split. Again, it looks easy, but due to the distance there are few options :[/i]

OU and UT have said that they [b]must[/b] be in the same division because they don’t want to play again in a CCG.

use instead of [ and ] in your post.

If you had that OU / UT link can you post it?

I understand OU and UT doing it, but in the era of the CCG will it sell? Every other conference is trying to balance divisions and you have one with already large issues going in the opposite direction. UT was used to controlling the SWC and their home state. OU is tied to Texas recruiting and the Red River Rivalry, and oSu is tied to OU. Asking for peace in the barnyard with three new schools with no ties to Texas or the old SWC seems like a an open invitation to future disaster and discontent.

I don’t follow on the use of italics and etc. Use what instead of [ and ]?

I’ll see if I can find one of the articles that talked about the OU/UT issue and post later.

frug

says:

joe4psu

says:

Thanks duffman, frug and M in R for help with HTML.

Here’s a couple of pieces that mentions the OU and UT division restriction. The authors don’t explain the reason. I found the first piece in two places, one of which is gregswaim.com–BigTimeSports which doesn’t add credibility from what I’ve heard, so I’ll list both. None of these are mainstream sources so maybe this is an urban myth. If I have time I’ll look for something mainstream.

Weighing In On Big 12 Expansion by Jordan Grove

Big 12 Expansion Would End the Red River Rivalry | Big 12 Football: 4 Reasons the Oklahoma Sooners Will Kill Expansion Talk | Bleacher Report by Nick Machiavelli

To expand back to 12 teams, there would need to be two divisions.

For expansion to be beneficial, the divisions need to be evenly matched, and there are no legitimate counterweights to Texas and Oklahoma to anchor a northern division. Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would have to move to the North Division.

Neither Texas nor Oklahoma would agree to continue their rivalry if they would face each other in a championship game.

Predictions for the New Big 12 for the New Year | December by Honus Sneed

(Yes, it’s “The Dude”)

joe4psu

says:

Redhawk

says:

@joe4psu

you went to Greg Swaim, Bleacher Report and “the Dude of WV” for reference? sigh

ok…OU and Texas will have to play every year in the Cotton Bowl. Honestly the rest of college football can burn in fiery pit of hell, before this game isn’t played in October of every year. It’s that important.

As far as “divisional strength” that’s just TODAY…that changes. OU is still not happy that they were split off from Nebraska, with the “you’ll play in the championship game” sales pitch. in 15 years that only happened twice.

joe4psu

says:

Redhawk,

I didn’t go there looking for info. I was asked about a topic that has been discussed many places but I couldn’t think of any off the top of my heard so I did a search. The fact that the only references I found with a quick search was the three listed was why I noted that these were all I could find right now and I knew they were less than reputable. Thus my point that I hoped to further search for mainstream sources.

I’m not sure what your post,

ok…OU and Texas will have to play every year in the Cotton Bowl. Honestly the rest of college football can burn in fiery pit of hell, before this game isn’t played in October of every year. It’s that important.

means. Do you dispute that OU and UT want to remain in the same division? While my search didn’t come up with any articles from OK or TX papers that discuss this, it is something that I have read many times before. I really hate the idea of going through all the expansion articles I bookmarked to find them, thus the quick search.

As for “divisional strength”, I agree that it will fluctuate, just like conference dominance. The point I was making is that this is a known issue for OU and UT.

Michael in Raleigh

@joe4psu

No…I’m saying OU and Texas will most definitely want to be in the same division. If they are split up in different divisions, then some form of protected cross divisional game will HAVE to be included as well.

I’m saying that the #1 issue for Texas and Oklahoma will be to maintain the OU/Texas game in Oct, in Dallas. No exceptions to this rule….at all…period.

Even if college football ceased to exist, and was banned….11 fraternity men from Oklahoma, and 11 from Texas would show up in Dallas to play a game on a sandlot some where.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas State, Brigham Young, Iowa State

East: Baylor, Texas Christian, Oklahoma State, Kansas, West Virginia, Louisville

Each division plays two automatic interdivision games — Texas schools vs. each other, Oklahoma/Kansas schools vs. each other, BYU/ISU vs. WVU/UL

Nine-game schedule; everyone visits teams in the other division at least once every four years.

bullet

says:

BYU is discovering scheduling as an independent is extremely difficult. They’ve got some high profile games but they’ve got lots of gaps. The B1G/Pac 12 deal and ACC and Big 12 going to 9 games is going to make things very difficult for them. Its Iowa State and Kansas vs. San Jose St. and New Mexico St.

As for academics, its about $ and competition first. And the academic issue has several components. Its not just the caliber of school, but what they are trying to achieve. Texas Tech and OU are working very hard to improve their academic status and both have political leaders who have the clout to help achieve that. Another component is the athletics side. Some schools will compromise a lot more on the “student” part of student-athlete. And SEC schools clearly stretch the rules. And while the number of major violations isn’t significantly different among the 5 major conferences, there’s a difference between GT getting a major violation for an athlete getting $300 in clothes from an agent and UK getting one for sending $20,000 in a Fedex envelope to a recruit. All the Texas SWC schools but Rice had major violations in the later years, but there was a difference between openly paying players like SMU, TCU and A&M did and what the others got charged with. BYU is a clean program. Louisville hasn’t had any major issues in recent years.

Splitting the schools is a real issue. I suspect if they expand they will figure that out later. With a 9 game schedule, the attractiveness of schedules is not an issue. Its just the competitiveness of the divisions. I don’t see them doing a zipper. They may separate Tech and TCU from Texas and Baylor, but that’s as far as I see a zipper going. Ultimately, if UT and OU decide they want to stay in the same division, they will be.

As for cultural clashes, BYU isn’t like anyone else. The OSU AD or President made a comment about keeping the Big 12 midwestern and there have been several comments about expansion being to the east.

I really don’t think Big 12 expansion is that far along. Its probably not much more advanced than the BCS changes. They’re still at 29,000 feet. My gut feel is that expansion is still 50/50.

The Big12 divisions will be whatever UT decides they will be.

The Pac’s N/S was predictable as it followed Scott’s mandate to improve and ease the marketabllity of the conference nationally.

The B1G’s leggins and Leaderhosen…I guess I just don’t understand. Emulate the ACC, but add a dose of ego?

frug

says:

frug

says:

joe4psu

says:

As for TX/OU, whether it is a division game or a cross-division game, it counts. If it is a cross-division game the loser is that much less likely to get to the CCG for a rematch. IOW, what frug says.

TX_Andy

says:

Redhawk

says:

I fully doubt OU/Texas game will be split up with the idea that they will match up in a championship game every fall. OU was sold that with the OU/Nebraska game split and that only happened twice.

If fans had the choice of getting OU/Texas or a Big Championship game ticket, I’m guessing most fans will demand….”BOTH”. An appearance in a Championship game isn’t guaranteed. A regular season game is.

frug

says:

(Meant to post this here)

I know the economics of the RRR (it is the most valuable regular season game in all of CFB) but the fact that you are looking at only about a 25% chance of a rematch 3 months later, means that fans are still going to pay to see them (and any lost revenue would likely be offset by the premium that TV networks and Jerry would pay for the possibility of a UT-OU rematch in the title game).

They may insist on being in the same division, but the economics of a title rematch is not going to be the issue.

wmtiger

says:

TX_Andy

says:

joe4psu

says:

If only it had happened. Three divisions.

I can see it now, the Leggins, Leaderhosen and Eastern Elitist divisions.

frug

says:

Patriot-News reporter Sara Ganim wins George Polk Award | PennLive.com

“By law, individuals can’t be charged with violating the act. Only an institution can be charged, Carter said, and the law outlines the procedure for mandated reporting to include any official with significant responsibility for student and campus activities, including an athletic director or team coach.

“Chain-of-command reporting is perfectly permissible,” Carter said. “And, in fact, [it is] something I recommend so an individual official may report it to their supervisor who would then report to the collecting authority. This may have been one of the ‘gray areas’ at issue in 2002.”

Prosecutors say Schultz, head of university police at the time, and Curley never gave the 2002 report to campus police — the Clery Act reporter for Penn State.”

Larry Scott talked with Pete Thamel of the NY Times on Friday. The link below contains some very “insightful” comments, but nothing definitive. One comment I found particularly interesting is;

“As for determining the final four teams, Scott said a notion that Roy Kramer, a former Southeastern Conference commissioner, expressed to CBSSports.com last week “resonated with me.” To keep the integrity of the regular season and the conference championship games, Kramer said, all of the teams in the playoff should be conference champions.”

…Scott agreed with the position of the Big Ten, first reported by The Chicago Tribune, which favored home sites for the semifinal games and a neutral site for the championship game. After a number of discussions with the N.F.L., Scott said, following its model made sense.

“There’s a reason that in the N.F.L. they only play the Super Bowl as a neutral-site game,” he said. “There’s a reason they play playoffs and A.F.C. and N.F.C. championships with home hosting.”

Scott added that the Pac-12 chose a campus-hosting model for its title game because he felt it would create the best atmosphere. Fans, he said, would be unlikely to travel to two neutral sites in 10 days.

“If the N.F.L. thought that they could support that model, they would,” he said.

Probably the best argument for using home games for the semi-finals. I know that the NFL and CFB are different, but he makes a good point.

Steve,

I don’t like the idea of “forcing” ND or any school to join a conference but if they feel “forced” to join a conference to get into the playoffs, so be it. I also agree 100% with your take on the rest.

When they say conference champ, what I really think they mean is “not a conference loser.” In other words, independents would still eligible, but conference runner-ups wouldn’t.

The only other aspect I expect on that would be that the limit is one team per conference. If the Big 12 remains at 10 (I don’t think they’ll force anything), then only the higher rated conference champ could make the playoffs if 2 are tied.

When they say conference champ, what I really think they mean is “not a conference loser.” In other words, independents would still eligible, but conference runner-ups wouldn’t.

Why would they want to make it easier for independents to make it to the playoffs that it is for their own teams?

Eric

says:

Kevin,

With 4 games they can. If you only have semi-finals (preferably with the season moved up a week) and then announce bowl games, the Rose Bowl would always have the Big Ten champ unless they are in the national championship game. Losing in the semi-finals would hurt travel some years, but I think the cost of that is a lot less than the cost of having 2nd or 3rd place team every year where even the idea of going to a bowl is devalued (since then you have a distinct tract of playoffs vs. bowls rather than the playoffs being semi-finals before the bowls and a bowl itself (the national championship game)).

joe4psu

I’d argue Notre Dame has a tougher schedule most years (and really that’s all that’s likely to qualify anytime soon) than most your conference champions do.

Eric

says:

a. To make the regular season more meaningful

b. To prevent one conference from getting too much representation (and thus hurting the others)

The last thing these conferences want is to force Notre Dame to join a conference other than their own. That limits the games they get to play against the Irish, forces realignment by at least 2 teams that might harm other conferences, and makes every other conference weaker by comparison.

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